denise | (no subject)

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I am stunned, pleased, and incredibly thankful for the response everyone's given to the update page redesign post. Seriously, guys. I mean, seriously.

When I worked on LJ, we used to have the rule that the designer and programmer responsible for any major changes weren't allowed to read the comments of the news post announcing the change, because the comments would be so vicious that it would destroy all motivation; someone else would have to read and collate the feedback. I told

fu that she wasn't allowed to read the news post comments at first, because I was still in that mindset, and by the time we'd hit something like 50 comments -- all of which were excited, energetic, and full of thoughtful, positive, and useful suggestions for improvement -- I lifted that restriction, because the response was just that good.

I'm not talking about the fact that nearly everyone so far likes the design (although -- as the person who sketched the first draft of it, the one that

fu improved so much -- that certainly helps!); I'm talking about the fact that every single comment has been helpful and productive. I swear, people could've been telling us that they wanted to change everything about it as long as it was phrased the way things have been getting phrased!

I should've known better, because over and over again, you guys have proven that you are just that awesome. I've seen it time and again in

dw_news,

dw_biz, and

dw_suggestions: I don't think there's a single site out there with users this thoughtful, articulate, careful, and dedicated to the improvement of the site for everybody, not just for themselves. And I can't tell you how much of a relief it is, as a site owner, to know that our users are so dedicated to the good of the community and of the site.

In short, I adore you guys. All of you. (Yes, even you, there in the back.) Thank you for being absolutely awesome. Every time I start getting frustrated or fed up about the sheer amount of stuff involved in running this site, something like this happens, and I am flush with love about the fact we have such damn awesome users.

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I think you guys have the users that you deserve, which means that, on the whole, they're pretty awesome and they care about the site and making it better and easier for everyone. Just like the owners.

Seconded.

DW is a good place to be and I think that overall, we appreciate it and want to make it an even better place to be.

Also, yeah, we are totally awesome. :D

\o/

We love you too.

♥

The "problem" here is LJ's; they make people unhappy, so they get wank on their news posts. You do awesome things, and you make people happy. It would be totally unjustified for us to be wanky at you :)

There's that.

There's also the fact that we are being asked how these changes will work for us and our opinions are being solicited on how to do this better.

LJ... well, they did occasionally offer to let people beta test new site schemes, or whatever, but there were multiple times when changes that really seriously affected the way I was using the site (and I had large numbers of accounts to maintain because I was running all the NPCs in a huuuuge RPG) that happened with very little warning and no requests at all for any information on how the changes would affect the way people used the site.

I'm so amazingly pleased this is being done this way that if anyone did get wanky I'd probably hurt them.

Of course this is being done this way BECAUSE Denise and Mark and their crew are awesome so I'm really just explicating on what you said already. :)

Edited 2010-05-29 07:57 (UTC)

Hmm, yes. It's called leadership. And setting an example. And other things that mean you get the users you deserve. :D

I just woke up, I have to go give feedback.

Your users have pretty damn awesome benevolent overlords. :D

When I worked on LJ, we used to have the rule that the designer and programmer responsible for any major changes weren't allowed to read the comments of the news post announcing the change, because the comments would be so vicious that it would destroy all motivation; someone else would have to read and collate the feedback.

Is it sad that I'm SO happy to hear this? I only read a few of those posts - such as the profile page update, which seemed pretty innocuous to me - and it hurt my soul thinking some poor person had to put up with such venom. Whatever people think of the organization, it shocks me that people can have so little consideration for the individuals who put their time and energy into something.

Which means I am so, so pleased to be here and see that these attitudes haven't been ported over to DW. As happy as I am reading the comments, I can only imagine you and

fu must be so much more!

I only read a few of those posts - such as the profile page update, which seemed pretty innocuous to me - and it hurt my soul thinking some poor person had to put up with such venom.

I just googled and found the announcement in lj_design. :/

Horrific, isn't it? I mean, there are some sincere and helpful, or even positive comments, but what inspires someone to give a subject line to a comment of "You are a disappointment"? It's as if the internet lets people forget that there are other people on the other end of the line.

I can understand being repeatedly disappointed and upset with a service, but I'm pretty much of the opinion that if you get to the point of spitting hatred and telling people they suck, you probably should find another service. *coughDWcough* And like Denise says, criticism can be awesome if it's said with some kindness!

Extremely happy! Everyone has been so fantastic; it's a pleasure combing through the news comments to find out what needs to be changed.

You try to give us your best so we try to give you our best too. If you listen we will listen; if you explain we will explain; if you ask us for our opinions and suggestions and really mean it we will try to make these as useful and sensible as possible; if you give us regular updates and answer our questions we will be understanding and patient; if you tell us what to expect we will not be surprised and will react in a calm, thoughtful manner. /2 cents

Edited 2010-05-27 16:08 (UTC)

Exactly.

awww, back at ya! :D

personally, i think you've all brought all the good things that happen here upon yourselves. lol :P

It helps, I think, that you're treating users in the manner you expect to be treated; I know the LJ-staff-bot was necessary when it was introduced but I feel as though it was symbolic how LJ changed — from

brad to

theljstaff, from personal to corporate, and there was a certain...lack of forethought about that process? Like LJ tripped and fell into being a Big Company and no one was really sure of how to do that, so they tried to fake it and Act Like Grown-Ups, and the users could tell.

I think the helpfulness of the comments has kept the other ones helpful, too!
For example, I've been having a bad week and I don't like change when I'm not having a bad week, and so I was briefly tempted to make a whiny comment. But by the time I got through the comments at the time I read the entry, all of the criticisms I had that were constructive and not "waah it's new why is it new" had been made, and made politely, rationally, helpfully, &c. So I knew I didn't need to add whininess "just to be sure my concerns were heard", and everyone else's squee made me feel a lot better about the changes. :)

I had a quick look last night and will examine it more closely today, but it looks good at a glance, it looks usable.

Thank you (and the design crew)!

It probably also helps that you're consulting with everyone before making large changes... which many other sites don't do. If you changed the entry page without asking for comments first the response might not be quite so good.

That said, you guys are awesome, so of course we're all lovely to you!

♥♥♥♥♥

N'awww! ♥

I am planning to have a look this weekend, time and internet suckage permitting.

I think it's how you guys have been going through with the changes. You ask for feedback before the major changes, you let us know that you can't please everyone but want to do what's best for the majority, you put thought into what changes are made.

And I think that it's true, we tend to treat our DW 'home' different than our other 'homes' because this one is new and we know the changes are to try to make it better for us, not for profits or are not just changes for some nebulous reason or to direct ads at us.

Maybe it's also right now we're a much smaller base, less chance of wank in the community???

And maybe you guys & gals are all pretty cool and it's hard to get too shitty with someone you feel a connection, even remotely, with.

You treat us well and you ask our opinions. LJ tends not to ask opinions as often as might be advisable, and so people treat it as a battle - they have to get their opinion out there, they have to force people to hear them.

We know you're listening. You told us so and you asked, and we know from prior example that you DO listen and consider. You may not agree in all cases, but I've never seen you make a decision without considering the input, and without reasons why you didn't take particular input, which you're willing to explain if asked.

That's no excuse for treating LJ staff the way has happened sometimes - it's too easy to forget that these are people, not "LJ" the monolith, as if the site had a will of its own - but it is easier to treat people like people when they are doing things you like, even if the "things you like" part is only communicating and asking your opinion on something else.

Not that I've looked at the new update page, but I'm on vacation, so I may not get to it. I'm pretty zen - I don't use it much, and I am not too worried that you'll do anything I can't live with. (If you do, I know someone would comment, since you'd pretty much have to delete large and major functions to really aggravate me.)

If I get time, though, I'll play with it from my iPhone and see what the tags auto-complete does (though I do understand the tags are already known to have an issue even in PC browsers, but just to see if they're otherwise cooperative).

I think also it's because that there are a lot of artists of various types here - that is, people who have been on the receiving end of critique themselves and have learned how to give it well. Yay everybody!

It's just our humble opinion, but we think the reason there are such damn awesome users. is because...

There's such a damn awesome team and you all know how to be truly enthusiastic about everything and it really shows.

~Dreamers

You remind me a little bit of something I read last year, just an article in an in-flight magazine, but it was about a company that doesn't do the "customers first" mentality -- it does "employees first" instead, because the company director was of the firm belief (and correct!) that employees would give wonderful customer service if they knew the company had their back. That if they didn't have to worry about accepting and dealing with terrible treatment from customers all on their own, they would be happier and more productive and also friendlier and more open with customers. There wouldn't be paste-on smiles that everyone was afraid to let slip, there would be real smiles.

...I feel like Dreamwidth has done something similar, if obviously different. Like Dreamwidth, too, has focused on the right thing, and let everything else flow from that. And working behind the scenes, I can definitely say right now that the love here starts with the people working on it and is DIRECTED towards the people using it until they, too, feel the love.

I don't want to say that LJ is or has been always completely run by people who didn't feel that love, because that's not fair (obviously not true, either, since you worked there at some point! ;), but...

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